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comic75
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193 posts		 Oct-04-02, 08:34 PM (EDT)
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"Wet Carpet in front?"
 
After heavy rains the carpet area in front of the passenger seat is wet. The area thats wet is up towards the firewall and near the outside of the car.

I haven't looked at it yet, but is this a sign of my windshield leaking? And if so what is an estimate on repair cost?


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Wet Carpet in front? drillerteam Oct-04-02 1
  RE: Wet Carpet in front? Silly Canadian Oct-04-02 2
     RE: Wet Carpet in front? Lickteam Oct-05-02 3
         RE: Wet Carpet in front? MaddShadezteam Oct-05-02 4
             RE: Wet Carpet in front? cyclepathic1 Oct-07-02 5
                 RE: Wet Carpet in front? Gus Dec-23-02 19
  RE: Wet Carpet in front? ggfteam Oct-08-02 6
     RE: Wet Carpet in front? 97 Ivory Pearl VIII Nov-21-02 7
         RE: Wet Carpet in front? ggfteam Nov-26-02 11
             RE: Wet Carpet in front? 97 Ivory Pearl VIII Dec-18-02 12
                 RE: Wet Carpet in front? johnaecteam Dec-22-02 13
  RE: Wet Carpet in front? neontail97team Nov-22-02 8
     RE: Wet Carpet in front? arthurb30team Nov-25-02 9
         RE: Wet Carpet in front? M Darrahteam Nov-25-02 10
             RE: Wet Carpet in front? arthurb30team Dec-22-02 14
                 RE: Wet Carpet in front? johnaecteam Dec-22-02 15
                     RE: Wet Carpet in front? arthurb30team Dec-23-02 16
                         RE: Wet Carpet in front? johnaecteam Dec-23-02 17
                             RE: Wet Carpet in front? ggfteam Dec-23-02 18
                                 RE: Wet Carpet in front - still johnaecteam Dec-26-02 20
                                     RE: Wet Carpet in front - still Alexanderteam Dec-26-02 21
                                         RE: Wet Carpet in front - still 97 Ivory Pearl VIII Dec-26-02 22
                                             RE: Wet Carpet in front - still Alexanderteam Dec-27-02 23
                                         RE: Wet Carpet in front - still johnaecteam Dec-27-02 24

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drillerteam
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1169 posts		 Oct-04-02, 09:39 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #0
 
Poor weatherstrip seal at windshield cowl/vent allows water to infiltrate into passenger compartment - that's what I've heard. Not sure of fix or cost. I hope someone else with personal experience with this problem chimes in.



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Silly Canadian
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78 posts		 Oct-04-02, 09:52 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #0
 
   Me too!!

After 2 days of heavy rain, the floor on the passenger side is all wet…?

I think it is coming from the blower housing.

Is this related to the blend door?

When I changed the heater core in my Mark VII - I saw a small hose through the firewall, that I assume dumped condensation from the AC outside…

Surely this M8 would have the same?? Maybe it is plugged or fell out of the firewall?

Has this happened to anyone else? Any advise?

Thanks,

Jason


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Lickteam
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115 posts		 Oct-05-02, 03:00 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #2
 
   Do any of you have aftermarket moonroofs. A lot of times the vent lines become clogged and the only thing left for the water to do is back up. This happened to a buddy of mine, he got the plastic vent tubes unclogged and no more wet carpet.


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MaddShadezteam
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1741 posts		 Oct-05-02, 04:21 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #3
 
   check for clogged hoses around the heater core etc. These can get clogged up and leak into the interior carpets.


dj
http://www.markviii.org/~maddshadez

93 Mark VIII 97,000 miles
Burgandy exterior/ "Mirage" green/purple and grey custom interior

2000 Mustang V-6
Red exterior/ beige interior


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cyclepathic1
Charter Member
289 posts		 Oct-07-02, 09:24 AM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #4
 
   * Use a blow gun and blow air into moonroof vent tubes
* Check the gap between doors and moonroof use a stiff but relatively thin piece of mylar and run it between door and gaskets as well as moonroof.

Best Regards,
John Correia

1995 Lincoln Mark VIII
~white opalescent~
1994 Lincoln MArk VIII (parts car)
~midnight black~

Personal and Parts Site:
http://www.geocities.com/cyclepathic1/
Email:
cyclepathic1@yahoo.com


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Gus
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58 posts		 Dec-23-02, 03:25 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #5
 
   >* Use a blow gun and blow air into moonroof vent tubes

Where in the moonroof area are these vent tubes? Do I need to remove the headliner?



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ggfteam
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142 posts		 Oct-08-02, 11:41 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-02 AT 11:43 PM (EDT)
 
Sounds all to familiar. Most likely its a leak through the fresh air intake under the plastic cowl at the base of the windshield. I had the same problem and this was my fix. Take cowl piece off and add some foam window sealant tape to the exhisting foam that seals the air intake. I bet you find the existing piece of foam is flattened and hard. You can take that off or add to the top of it with more foam. Then, reinstall the cowl. For extra protection, I ran a bead of silicone under the top edge of the cowl piece, sealing against the windshield. So far so good, even through high pressure car washes.
Greg - 97LSC


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97 Ivory Pearl VIII
Member since Nov-18-02
76 posts		 Nov-21-02, 11:54 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #6
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-02 AT 11:56 PM (EDT)
 
>Sounds all to familiar. Most likely its a leak through the
>fresh air intake under the plastic cowl at the base of the
>windshield. I had the same problem and this was my fix. Take
>cowl piece off and add some foam window sealant tape to the
>exhisting foam that seals the air intake. I bet you find the
>existing piece of foam is flattened and hard. You can take
>that off or add to the top of it with more foam. Then,
>reinstall the cowl. For extra protection, I ran a bead of
>silicone under the top edge of the cowl piece, sealing
>against the windshield. So far so good, even through high
>pressure car washes.
>Greg - 97LSC

Greg --

I just discovered the same problem with my '97. Which side of the windshield is this vent on? Could it make a difference if some of the hold-down fasteners for the cowl piece are missing, too?

Ross

Ross & Suzanne Trimboli
Mishawaka, IN

'97 Ivory Pearlescent Mark VIII (Mine)
'01 Zinc Yellow Mustang V6 'Vert (Her's)

"Objects In Mirror May Appear BEATEN !!!"


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ggfteam
Charter Member
142 posts		 Nov-26-02, 10:27 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #7
 
   The vent is on the passenger side at the base of the windshield, under the cowl. Yes, replace any broken or missing fasteners, or all of them would be even better. There may be a design or quality flaw here. The cowl should hug the windshield tightly, not allowing rain water to get under it. My other two cars have tightly fitting cowls with the weather strip tight against the glass. My Mark cowl seal does not even touch the glass at some points along the windshield. I have since replaced a couple of fasteners and the windshield installation technician told me I could go ahead and seal the entire length of the cowl with silicone sealant, as a cheap and effective fix. I have only done the cowl section on the passenger's side but still have not had a problem with water comming in. Chalk up another screw-up for Ford. If anyone needs more details, inbox of email me.
Greg - 97LSC


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97 Ivory Pearl VIII
Member since Nov-18-02
76 posts		 Dec-18-02, 02:51 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #11
 
   >The vent is on the passenger side at the base of the
>windshield, under the cowl. Yes, replace any broken or
>missing fasteners, or all of them would be even better.
>There may be a design or quality flaw here. The cowl should
>hug the windshield tightly, not allowing rain water to get
>under it. My other two cars have tightly fitting cowls with
>the weather strip tight against the glass. My Mark cowl seal
>does not even touch the glass at some points along the
>windshield. I have since replaced a couple of fasteners and
>the windshield installation technician told me I could go
>ahead and seal the entire length of the cowl with silicone
>sealant, as a cheap and effective fix. I have only done the
>cowl section on the passenger's side but still have not had
>a problem with water comming in. Chalk up another screw-up
>for Ford. If anyone needs more details, inbox of email me.
>Greg - 97LSC

Greg --

50 degrees in northern Indiana in mid-December, thunderstorms overnight, and my carpet is wet on the passenger side again. I peeked under the cowl and found the fresh-air intake. I'm confused as to where to put the new weatherstripping. Did you apply it to the existing weatherstripping on the bottom of the cowl or did you apply it around the outside of the intake where it drops down towards the center of the car to sort of build it up to a common height? It seems that the water can enter from the vents in the front of the cowl through the lowered area on the flange(?)of the intake. Also, did you have to remove the wiper on the passenger side to completely remove the cowl?

While it is still warm, I'd like to get this "annoyance" taken care of. Did you get the new cowl fasteners from a FL-M parts department, or the "HELP" section of your local Pep Boys/Auto Zone/Other Auto Parts chain store?

Ross
(sorry I didn't e-mail you...had trouble with the link)

Ross & Suzanne Trimboli - Mishawaka, IN
'97 Ivory Pearlescent Mark VIII (His)
'01 Zinc Yellow Mustang V6 'Vert (Hers)
"Objects In Mirror May Appear BEATEN !!!"


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johnaecteam
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1331 posts		 Dec-22-02, 02:47 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #12
 
   I'm going through the same thing with the leak - boy, did they mess up on this design. I'll build up the foam, but I think my problem stems from when the windshield was replaced, (before I got it). The cover hold-downs "look" like they're screws, but you'd have to know they aren't - they take a half-turn to line up the flat spots, then the cowl can be pulled out. Most of mine were just broken off, so there was no real seal between the windshield and cowl-gasket. I can't believe how FMC designed these cars to "snap" together, instead of using screws - it seems like everything uses push connectors, and more often then not, they've been screwed up.

Also - a heads-up for those with wet carpeting on the passenger side. If you actually pull it up, you'll find there's a "dimple" in the floor pan, and it has a removeable rubber drain plug in the bottom, (only removeable from the inside). Unless you pull this plug and drain the water, you'll end up with a lot of water, (1/2 cup?), just sitting in this dimple, and it will take forever for your carpet to dry out.

John

'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6 LX


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neontail97team
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1388 posts		 Nov-22-02, 08:19 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #0
 
   Oh no this is contagious. Me too. I have rubber mats in the front and I noticed water laying on the pass side after a very heavy rain. Light rain no problem or even driving during a heavy rain no problem. Only when it sits. Have not sat in the car yet during a rain to find source. I have a factory moonroof but don't think thats the source even though it would seem obvious. I'm going to check the plastic cowl at base of windshield. Thanks for the tips.
I had my passenger seat out the other day and noticed the floor was wet under the carpet in the low spot under the seat which is not a good thing. It will never dry out on its own. I lifted the carpet slightly and dryed it with a hair dryer. Those of you that have leaks may want to check for dampness under the seat.


Jason Z
Pittsburgh PA
97 LSC BLK/BLK


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arthurb30team
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3207 posts		 Nov-25-02, 07:13 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #8
 
I am going through the same problem. I removed the two cowl covers and found all kinds of leaves, twigs, and trailmix. There are some drainage holes that were probably clogged up. My L/M guy said the same thing. I will be be keeping an eye on it.

Art Brown

You never know how you look until you get your picture took.


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M Darrahteam
Member since Nov-2-02
400 posts		 Nov-25-02, 10:05 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #9
 
   This isn't exactly related, but Art's comment about the debris in there makes me wonder about the blend door problem. After having read some of the blend door posts, I get the impression that one cause for its failure is debris falling down there blocking the door itself.

I've been mulling this over, and it occurs to me that a way to avoid this is to cement a fine screen or mesh onto the back side of the cowl vent covers. That would prevent 99% of the crap from getting in, but you'd probably have to be more diligent in keeping them clear. It'd be worth it to me though. I haven't looked at the covers closely, but what are everyone's thoughts on doing this?

As for the leak, I wouldn't necessarily rule out the windshield itself. There's a TSB about it. Here's the text:

Windshield - Water Leaks
Article No. 99-2-3

ISSUE
The customer may report a water leak from the windshield. This may be caused by a skip or a void in the production sealer somewhere around the periphery of the windshield.

ACTION
Apply a bead of Liquid Butyl Sealer (F8AZ-19554-CA) under the weatherstrip around the periphery of the windshield. Refer to the appropriate Service or Workshop Manual for weatherstrip removal where necessary.

NOTE DUE TO DIFFICULTY IN DETERMINING THE EXACT LOCATION OF A WATER LEAK, IT MAY BE IDEAL TO SEAL THE ENTIRE WINDSHIELD PERIPHERY (SIDES, TOP AND BOTTOM) TO ENSURE REPAIR OF THE LEAK.

Mark
'98 LSC
Black on Black


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arthurb30team
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3207 posts		 Dec-22-02, 08:07 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #10
 
"The cover hold-downs "look" like they're screws, but you'd have to know they aren't - they take a half-turn to line up the flat spots, then the cowl can be pulled out. Most of mine were just broken off, so there was no real seal between the windshield and cowl-gasket. I can't believe how FMC designed these cars to "snap" together, instead of using screws - it seems like everything uses push connectors, and more often then not, they've been screwed up."

John: could you explain these so-called (7) screws that hold down the cowl covers? I had a lot of trouble with them and even bought some new assemblies. They screwed into the white plastic recievers when I did it in my hand, but did not screw in tight when installed on the car.

Art Brown

You never know how you look until you get your picture took.


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johnaecteam
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1331 posts		 Dec-22-02, 10:47 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #14
 
   Those 7 "screws" aren't screws. They have little ridges that "look" like threads, with the shaft itself flat on opposite sides. When the slot in the head is vertical, the flat sides fit in the narrow receiving slot, then when you turn the head slot horizontal, the shaft turns and the ridges then push into the flat sides of the receiving slot, holding them down tight. For removal, the head slots should be turned vertical, which takes the pressure off the shaft, and the cowl should just be able to be lifted out.

Most of mine were already broken off, (undoubtedly just pulled up while under pressure). I'm hoping I can get some new ones tomorrow, or else I'll just have to find the right size screw to thread into the receiving slots.

It's really a terrible design - my T-Bird, (at half the new price), uses nice countersunk phillips head screws - all metal to metal, for ease of removal and very secure hold down. I can't believe how cheaply this is designed on the Mark...

John

'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6 LX


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arthurb30team
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3207 posts		 Dec-23-02, 00:16 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #15
 
John: do yours have Phillips heads?

Art Brown

You never know how you look until you get your picture took.


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johnaecteam
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1331 posts		 Dec-23-02, 09:30 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #16
 
   >> do yours have Phillips heads?

No - they just have slots. If yours has Phillips, maybe someone has already modified the mounts, or else Lincoln at some time changed the design. My T-Bird has Phillips, though they're much smaller. I'm thinking of changing to Phillips screws, if I can find something close to the flakey plastic stock connectors.

John

'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6 LX


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ggfteam
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142 posts		 Dec-23-02, 01:56 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Wet Carpet in front?"
In response to message #17
 
   OK, Ross, sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. Anyhow, guys, this is what I know. The fasteners are push type with screwdriver slots. I got a new one from the auto glass company that replaced my windshield. It has a philips head. The tech told me they don't even make the original design anymore, at least not after market. He said, any push type connector should work as long its the right diameter and length. I would suggest the ones you can get at auto zone or pep boys with the inside pin that expands the shaft as you push it in. As far at the weather stripping question goes, I just added some over the origial piece of foam that's on the back side (nearest the windshield) of the fresh air intake. Then I sealed my entire passenger side cowl with clear silicone...directly to the windshield. I figure this did the most good. Now, not a drop of water can get at the intake from the windshield side. And yes, I think you need to remove the pass. side wiper to completely remove the cowl. I did not and was able to work under it. It wasn't easy though. Whether or not any water can get inside through the vents in the cowl (under the hood), thats another story. I have not had this problem.
Greg - 97 LSC


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johnaecteam
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1331 posts		 Dec-26-02, 11:36 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Wet Carpet in front - still"
In response to message #18
 
   Well, the last few days over a dry spell, I did all the stuff mentioned here, including silicone sealing the windshield gasket. It started raining last night, and this morning my passenger carpet was again soaked!! 'Looks like I've got some real detective work ahead...

John

'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6 LX


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Alexanderteam
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2281 posts		 Dec-26-02, 10:28 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Wet Carpet in front - still"
In response to message #20
 
The screws on the black plastic cowl on the 1997-98 Mark VIII are special black plastic screws with a large phillips head. Mechanics are very good at breaking these. You can easily buy replacements at any Ford dealer for about $.60 a piece.

Alexander
President - Lincolns of Distinction
PO Box 754157
Forest Hills, NY 11375-9157



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97 Ivory Pearl VIII
Member since Nov-18-02
76 posts		 Dec-26-02, 11:49 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Wet Carpet in front - still"
In response to message #21
 
   >The screws on the black plastic cowl on the 1997-98 Mark
>VIII are special black plastic screws with a large phillips
>head. Mechanics are very good at breaking these. You can
>easily buy replacements at any Ford dealer for about $.60 a
>piece.
>
>Alexander
>President - Lincolns of Distinction
>PO Box 754157
>Forest Hills, NY 11375-9157

Alexander --

Mine have a shallow slot on them. Are these Phillips head screws a new design?

If they are, do you have a part number for them? I need a full set so I can do the new weatherstrip/silicone sealant deal to my Mark.

Its always easier for the FL-M guy behind the counter if you have a number. That way you're not doing the "is it this or is it that" deal and then winding up with the wrong part the first go around.

Thanks !!!

Ross

Ross & Suzanne Trimboli - Mishawaka, IN
'97 Ivory Pearlescent Mark VIII (His)
'01 Zinc Yellow Mustang V6 'Vert (Hers)
"Objects In Mirror May Appear BEATEN !!!"


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Alexanderteam
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2281 posts		 Dec-27-02, 10:30 AM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Wet Carpet in front - still"
In response to message #22
 
I could not find a part number in my shop manual for these screws. They are called "cowl vent screen retainers." The counter man at Maplecrest LM knew what I was referring to right away. I think they are common parts.

Alexander
President - Lincolns of Distinction
PO Box 754157
Forest Hills, NY 11375-9157



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johnaecteam
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1331 posts		 Dec-27-02, 11:00 AM (EDT)
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24. "RE: Wet Carpet in front - still"
In response to message #21
 
   Alexander - mine has the slotted, flat heads - FMC must have changed to phillips at some time, or vice-versa. Mine aren't really screws, just push-in and a twist for easy release. I actually did replace them with screws that are a tight fit, so I'm virtually positive the water isn't getting in there - not the amount I'm seeing, anyway.

I've got most of the water soaked up again, and the carpet pulled back. I decided to tape up all the likely suspects, (moonroof for the drains, along the top right side door, and all the windshield seams, etc.), and drive the T-Bird for a few days and let the Mark sit to see if water still is coming in. As soon as it's dry out again, I'm also going to have someone outside with a hose to try for a more detailed analysis from inside.

John

'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6 LX


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