hi all what would be a safe shot of the gas with 129000 miles on car . no smoke yet runs great ,i was thinking 75 shot or 100 shot wide open 1/4 mile..what yall think ..... zex nitrous...

I LOVE these questions.....................NO.

My understanding (keeping in mind that my my knowledge is limited) is that the high compression of these engines, coupled with the maximum fuel delivery rate makes Nitrous a very tricky proposition because of the danger of detonation. It has to do with the engine running too lean and therefore too hot.

Am I off base here?

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Black on Black 1994 Mark VIII.
13.0864 @ 105.86 mph! (Satisfaction!)
Mods here: www.streettostrip.com/devin

Nope....see figure A below.

http://videos.streetfire.net/hottestvideos/3/880724C3-1AB3-43C9-96A8-491BD5FBDD33.htm

The great thing about a Mark VIII is that you can get into some fairly serious horsepower for not a lot of money.

The bad thing about a Mark VIII is that you can't add much to that horsepower without some fairly serious re-engineering and a considerable expense (in relation to what the car is worth).

That's not to say that you can't push that 4.6L way out there, but if you are going to spend 15 grand on a car that only cost you 3 to start with, you might just consider spending 18 on something that was designed for flat out speed, and not a mixture of speed and comfort.

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Black on Black 1994 Mark VIII.
13.0864 @ 105.86 mph! (Satisfaction!)
Mods here: www.streettostrip.com/devin

Never heard of anything higher than a 50 shot on a stock engine. The block can take it the internals cant. Also anything much bigger than 50 and youll need a fuel pump to keep up.

-Gavin
'97 Silver Frost

Friends dont let friends drive rice!
'97 Deep Evergreen R.I.P.

The motor will take more than you think but you need to make sure it's getting the fuel it needs.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

I've seen 150 shot on these cars with stock internals. I didn't update to see if there were long term side effects but I'd think that's a bit on the stout side.

Sean Hyland claims the stock blocks are good to, what, 1,500 hp? I can't recall for sure.

But the guts I'm sure are good to 500, without abusive mileage. Just my guess though.

With any nitrous kit you need to upgrade the fuel pump, and run larger injectors.

The more nitrous you're dumping, the more fuel needs to be added.

I believe the zex kit is a good worry-free set up and it's cheap$.

-I- would run a 75 shot on a well maintained 120k mile motor. but if I had problems I wouldn't cry about it, either.

EDIT: It's only the dummys that give nitrous a bad name. It's an excellent tool, in my opinion.

1996 LSC

Slowly looking for '93 stang GT or Cobra 5 spd

Don't be fooled, 400-450rwhp is common in these Marks on the bottle with no engine changes. Just got to use common sense, and work your way up to it slowly. People who are having the problems that Ive seen, aren't following the instructions included with their kits. And, uh, Mk8s aren't s/c'd so that doesn't apply. Juicing a boosted car is a little more tricky. 4.6 is very forgiving thanks to a great head design.

Dave
MM1(SW)-N USN CVN65 RM22
94 Mk8 Under Construction...
04 Mach1 13.07 @ 105.4 mph

Yes, you'd be ok with the kits 125hp shot. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE KIT!!! So long as you have a good fuel pump, pressure regulator and at least LSC dual exhaust, you be alright. Thing to look out for is the factory rev limiter, if you can get a chip from Dennis, or better yet, take the car to get it tuned at a facility with a wideband, and a dyno. Also, GET GOOD TIRES! M/T ET Streets, or BFG Dragradials. Another thing to think about, get a Steeda adjustable timing wheel. Then, back the timing off as suggested in the instructions. Run the SC Lightning plugs. If you run good gas, and are having no problems, you can advance the timing forward a degree at a time. Make sure to read a plug or two every time you do this and learn how to read plugs. Chiltons manuals tell you how to read plugs at the start of their books. Currently, Im running 12btdc with a 125hp shot to the flexplate, no issues. I know another guy running 200hp shot to the wheels(11.10 et 1/4) at factory 10btdc no issues amazingly. Start off with smallest shot to get used to the juice though, then work your way up. And, don't worry. If you are doing normal maint. you be ok. My buddy is running 125hp shot with mid-high 12's on 160k motor. I have plenty of experiance with this.

Dave
MM1(SW)-N USN CVN65 RM22
94 Mk8 Under Construction...
04 Mach1 13.07 @ 105.4 mph

This seems like a whole lot of effort and time for not much return, given the risk you are assuming.

OK, 30% more horsepower is nothing to laugh at, and it would be something you could definately FEEL when the car is going down the street, but if you mess up on one little parameter, misread one signal or something like your fuel pump hiccups or an injector fails to fire then kaboom, you are minus an engine.

I guess what I am saying is that in my mind Fear Uncertainty and Doubt carry more weight than the desire for 100 more horsepower. There's just so much that can go wrong, and so much that *has* to go right for it to work on these engines.

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Black on Black 1994 Mark VIII.
13.0864 @ 105.86 mph! (Satisfaction!)
Mods here: www.streettostrip.com/devin

No, no risk at all if you are just using a 75hp shot. If you get greedy and don't follow instructions with the kit, yeah, you'll run into problems. And, it is a HUGE gain. I went from a 14.07 1/4 to a 12.89 on a 75hp shot that same night. Bottle pressure had gotten up to 1200# un-known to me though, since I had the stereo going with the amps in the trunk. So, that had a little to do with it too. A 50hp shot is a big shot on a 4 cyl, but not a v8, especially new v8s with 6 bolt mains and stout cylinder walls. 50hp shot is especially hard on Hondas because they have no deck, and tend to suffer core shift. Typical non-TypeR block will split sleeves making greater than 300hp without a block saver, or joined sleeves. Seen that happen too. Messy....




If these pics come up, you'll see why people are so concerned about popping honda motors on the juice. This particular person had broke a timing belt and bent some valves in one head as I found out after doing a wet/dry compression check, bottom end was good, so was head, but bent 3 valves. Ran great when I was done. Anyway, there isn't much support for the sleeve on the top end.

Dave
MM1(SW)-N USN CVN65 RM22
94 Mk8 Under Construction...
04 Mach1 13.07 @ 105.4 mph

Please don't give poor instructions, if you have an SCT chip with modified timing DO NOT mess with the timing with a Steeda timing adjuster, you will blow your engine up. It's either one or the other, you can't use both products as they advance the timing through different methods...

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

Really? Im giving poor instructions? Hmmm...2 years my car has been on the bottle, on the stock motor, at 125hp shot. Funny thing is, its still running like a top! And people know not to mess with me on the street, a true 12sec car will dominate the roads, aka Viper, c6 vette, etc. Funny thing too, is the last mark, and the last two 2valve 4.6 mustangs I put the bottle on dropped over a second off their times and are running fine. Ok, what you are not understanding is that when you are not on the bottle it is nice to advance the timing a little more. Its nice to have a little flexability. And its not that hard to comprehend. Not putting you down or anything, its just how I see it as someone who does this FOR people regularly. If you aren't comfortable with it, then don't do it. Its up to you. But, remember this, putting a supercharger, turbo or any power adder on the car for that matter...requires close attention to tuning. So, don't go saying I gave poor instructions.

Dave
MM1(SW)-N USN CVN65 RM22
94 Mk8 Under Construction...
04 Mach1 13.07 @ 105.4 mph

Anyone else notice that posts posted by this guy and "lincoln_lust" are never replied too. Kinda messed up in my eyes, I guess its a good tool for other people that my want to know, but a little feedback would be nice for all these guys giving input!

So you have a SCT chip/dynotune with advanced timing and you are also advancing the timing 2 degrees with the steeda timing adjuster and the car runs fine on the nitrous?

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

I used to have spray on an older mustang 5 liter, and the instructions in the kit said pull 3 degrees of timing out of the car for every 100hp shot you throw at it. The stock motor timing is factory 10degrees BTC and if you put 100shot on it, that makes it 7degrees. I do know that when i put aftermaker heads on the car that were shaved 40 thousands, I was getting detonation with the same settings.

Now, if you play with nitrous make sure your fuel system can handle the task at hand. With more nitrous you need fuel, it doesn't matter if it is 100 shot or not you still need more fuel. Running lean on spray means excessive heat, which also means melting parts.

my O2

Actually, I have a crappy Geno chip, which has WAY too much timing in it. Problem was, I was stuck with it because I needed to get rid of the governor and the rev limiter. So, I got a adjustable wheel and backed the timing off. The only difference between a computer tune and this wheel, is that any change you make is global, meaning the whole rpm range. Crappy thing about that is when you pull timing to run the juice, its only needed(this took some reading to find) in the lower rpm range. So, you are losing power(not safety of engine) on the top end once you are rolling. When I can afford it, I will buy a multi program switch where its timing curve is taylored for juice, and other setting for n/a. Chip is expensive though. With a 302, or windsor, they aren't so forgiving. You can't run as much timing as a 4.6. It took me a while, but I found a safe spot for my car. After listening while shooting, and reading plugs. I also bench cleaned, and flow balanced my stock injectors, among many other things to ensure I have good fuel flow. I haven't looked, but I think Im around 12 btdc on the juice, and 14 btdc n/a. I also look for the best cleanest gas in the area. Its definetly a hoot to leave a 98up z28/firebird like its standing still at a light while shooting.

Dave
MM1(SW)-N USN CVN65 RM22
94 Mk8 Under Construction...
04 Mach1 13.07 @ 105.4 mph

OK let me jump in! My 96' Mark has 150k on it and I've been spraying
it for 2 yrs. As of last Saturday this is my 3rd racing season. HwyStar is absolutely correct, your biggest concern is making sure you have enough fuel. And when you spray you have to take timing out, not add it. The extra fuel and timing can be acclomplished with a chip and a good fuel pump. Now the easiest way to spray,(IMO) is with a ZEX dry kit. It's the safest way to go. Simple to hook up and the brain does all the work for you. The nitrous switch works off the TPS at wide open throttle and over 3000 rpms so you basically have it from start to finish. I've got a 4 program chip from Torrie with one program just for nitrous where as he's added fuel and retarded the timing 4 degrees. And again in my opinion the gain is well worth it. I don't even know what my car will run without the juice, cause every time I say I'm going to make a pass without it I get next to some Z06, or WS6 or someone else who thinks there cars are the greatest and I jsut have to show them what a 2 ton Lincoln can do to there $40,000 car. Oh by the way I'm spraying a 125hp shot. Started out with 75, then 100. With 125 you have to get a set of drag radials or you won't go anywhere. I race just about every Saturday at Quakercity Raceway and I have a ball in street legal class. Only bad thing is I'm usually the fastest car in the class so I have to spot quite a bit. Usually at least 2 seconds and it's hard to hold the Lincoln back that long. Sorry for rambling!!!

96' Mark VIII 12.05@113 97' Mark VIII LSC blk/blk

Whatever anyone says, I am still scared of it.

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Black on Black 1994 Mark VIII.
13.0864 @ 105.86 mph! (Satisfaction!)
Mods here: www.streettostrip.com/devin

Why did you post this?


What fuel pumps are you guys running? I am interested in getting a kit for a 75 or 100 shot on my Mark.

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1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
34,000 Miles
Ivory Pearlescent/Ivory

>Why did you post this?

I assume you were talking about this comment:

>Whatever anyone says, I am still scared of it.

It's a valid consideration with the Mark VIII's hypereutectic pistons. Sean Hyland pretty much sums up the concern folks should have when using Nitrous on hypereutectic pistons: "The OEM pistons work quite well for most performance applications, but any detonation at all results in the piston self destructing, immediately. This normally manifests itself by breaking the ring land between the top and second ring. This can go undetected for quite some time, the only clue being high oil consumption. That being said, there are many cases where the stock piston, when combined with a low boost supercharger system <10 PSI or less>, preferably intercooled, can provide long, trouble-free service."

Detonation is a big risk with an improperly set up nitrous system. To do nitrous right, you need to learn to read your spark plugs. Personally, I would only consider nitrous with a forged piston, but some experienced engine builders and hot rodders are willing to implement nitrous on hypereutectics.

______________________________________

>Why did you post this?
>
>
>What fuel pumps are you guys running? I am interested in
>getting a kit for a 75 or 100 shot on my Mark.


I'm running a Walbro 255lph in mine. Just for a little kick in the pants the 75 shot of dry nitrous is just the thing. You won't believe the difference. But if you have reservations and are afraid of anything in life then you should stay away from it. Myself, running mid 12s on the street is worth it!!!

96' Mark VIII 12.05@113 97' Mark VIII LSC blk/blk