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mlschultzWed Mar-05-08 12:12 PM
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"98 Mark SC Build"


  

          

Thought I would start a thread for the super charger I am having installed in the Mark. I will post updates as the build progresses. I am having the entire build done by professionals, and have given them the freedom to do as they wish to achieve the goals I have for the car, within reason .

Goal:
I want to keep the stock bottom end, and install a Vortech super charger that will produce the max amount of hp, 400-450hp, the motor, and the rest of the drive train can handle. I will use the car as a daily driver, long interstate trips, and it will see the drag strip. It must be well mannered. No drama

I will start with the current list of mods already done to the car, that will not change, and will be there when the SC install is complete:

SCT Xcal2 Flash tool
2 1/2" Custom mandrel bend SS exhaust
PI Single disc torque converter
Dynotech Metal Matrix Drive shaft
Ford Racing deep well trans fluid pan
Ford Racing 410 gears
Ford Racing Trak-Lok Diff
Raxle SC T-Bird rear half shafts

I dropped the car off today to have the transmission rebuilt to handle 500 hp+, install a transmission cooler, and to have the PI torque converter sent back to PI to have it re-stalled for the Vortech.

The trans builder, Steve, said he is going to replace, and also add some additional plates made out of a much better friction material, and who knows what else he is going to do. He said I will not have to worry about the transmission when he is done with it.

I am still working on who is going to do the SC install, and should be able to decide tomorrow.



Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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RoadbossWed Jan-17-07 09:27 PM
Member since May 24th 2003
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#1. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 0

          

Way to go Mike. We'll all be watching your progress. Are you considering Dennis as he has alot of experience with this typre of setup?

  
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RE: 98 Mark SC Build, mlschultz, Jan 17th 2007, #2
      RE: 98 Mark SC Build, Jeremi, Jan 17th 2007, #3
           RE: 98 Mark SC Build, callouie, Jan 17th 2007, #4
           RE: 98 Mark SC Build, mlschultz, Jan 17th 2007, #6
           RE: 98 Mark SC Build, Jeremi, Jan 17th 2007, #7
                RE: 98 Mark SC Build, KyleH, Jan 18th 2007, #8
           RE: 98 Mark SC Build, doodaa, Jan 18th 2007, #9
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mlschultzWed Jan-17-07 10:43 PM
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#2. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 1

  

          

Thanks, Charles. It is going to be a Dennis kit, but I am trying to convince Scott Lavine here in Atlanta, to do the build. Scott is calling Dennis to see what is involved, and if it is a plug and play kit with little fab work, and how long it will take to ship it here.

See... I am trying to coordinate the transmission build with the SC build, and save on some travel time. Steve, the guy doing the trans work, and Scott work together. I hope that when Steve was finished, he could just hand the keys to Scott and install the sc.

Scott has worked for Steeda, and is currently a Sr. Ford Master Tech, that has lost count of how many super charger builds he has done. He has a 700hp Mark VIII of his own, so I think this should be cake for him. He has already done all the rear end work for me, so I want to make sure he has a chance to say yes or no. Besides, he is a couple miles from the house vs a 8 hour drive to florida

If Scott says no, I will take the Mark to Dennis as soon as the trans work is done.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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JeremiWed Jan-17-07 11:01 PM
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#3. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 2

  

          

Mike, I see you're taking the easy way out ...

One thing I forgot to mention to you was the new KB kit for the b-heads. It's a 2.1l compressor kit that will work fine for the mark and would cost about the same. Are you dead set on the vortech yet ?

Not trying to stir up anything, I just plain forgot.

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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callouieWed Jan-17-07 11:17 PM
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#4. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 3

          

Who's starting the pool on your Raxles?

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-17-07 11:33 PM
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#6. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 4

  

          

lol I'm in for $20, and I give them 10 runs.

BTW, Jamie, do you still have that set of axles under your work bench?


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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JeremiWed Jan-17-07 11:47 PM
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#7. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 6
 Wed Jan-17-07 11:49 PM by Jeremi

  

          

Essentially it would be like a trilogy kit, but not intercooler (impossible with b-heads as of today).

The kit sells from KB form $3700ish and wouldn't require too much modification to get to work on the mark.





It would be definitely unique as I don't think there is a m8 with it installed.

http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/mustang-cobra46/mustangcobra46.htm

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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KyleHThu Jan-18-07 12:18 AM
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#8. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 7
 Thu Jan-18-07 12:19 AM by KyleH

          

IMO its kinda all overkill. I have made probably 10 passes (albiet none with traction sot hey dont really count) many 135-150mph blasts in third, etc etc. With the blower on a stock motor with just injectors, fuel pump, maf, TruCool 40K transcooler, and Paxton Novi 1000. I also have a meth kit with an M10 nozzle, 60psi pressure, and spraying -20* washer fluid. Very simple setup and hasnt missed a beat in about 4000-5000 miles (3-4 months) of driving it daily.

Its great that youre building up the motor and trans and what not but you probably dont need to. (Well mabye the trans since you can actually catch traction.)

1998 Lincoln Mark VIII

  
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doodaaThu Jan-18-07 12:52 PM
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#9. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 4

  

          

>Who's starting the pool on your Raxles?


Hmmm, with Mike's luck..... they're either gonna go on the first pass or they'll last a while. Give me $20 for the first pass and $20 for they last a few trips to the track, let's say 40 passes.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-17-07 11:26 PM
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#5. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 3

  

          

LOL Jeremi I can't even tell you how close I was to buying a 2003 XJR this past weekend for the same price as that forged stroker twin screw motor build, and calling off the whole Mark SC build all together. That is why I need to get this thing done asap

I would appreciate some details if you have it, and I will look into it. No commitments made with Dennis yet. Scott really does not care too much for the centrifugal sc, and was going to see if Jerry Barnes (Trilogy) has/could make a kit for the Mark VIII. So, I am sure he would be all for it. Thanks!


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceThu Jan-18-07 05:30 PM
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#10. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 5

  

          

You already have gears and a torque converter, if you get a twin screw blower you will be blowing off your tires on the street from a 35mph roll. You want the Vortech S trim.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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BigBoyBoeltsThu Jan-18-07 07:46 PM
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#11. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 10

          

Anyone think that twinscrew fit under a stock hood?

  
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coldasiceThu Jan-18-07 09:50 PM
Member since Oct 28th 2002
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#12. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 11

  

          

It should fit underneath the hood of a gen 2, gen 1 I don't think so...

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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mlschultzFri Jan-19-07 08:09 AM
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#13. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 12

  

          

That KB unit looks nice. I will talk to Scott today and see if he wants to dip into uncharted water. I think he is more inclined for a plug and play kit though, but you never know.

Yep, the drivetrain is set-up for a Vortech now. I had the Vortech in mind when the mods started last year. I might find myself doing more rear end and drivetrain work if I went to a KB though. Reminds me of SSHS6 with the Trilogy Marauder axle carnage .

Maybe I should stick with the more drivetrain friendly Vortech


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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JeremiFri Jan-19-07 11:06 AM
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#14. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 13

  

          

Again, easy route ... LOL

Vortech will require radiator relocation, tapping or welding a bung into the pan, modifying the a/c lines ... etc. Million little things. KB should be easy, very easy. Now that I think of it there was someone a while back that did one but I never heard any feedback. It was either Big Scott or his close friend.

That small KB doesn't make the power that will be breaking halfshafts. Don't worry, it's all can be tuned to liveable level. It will be much more fun to drive daily, that's a given. With both of my vortech cars I found myself always speeding as it took a while to reach RPMS to make enough boost to feel any torque.

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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callouieFri Jan-19-07 12:12 PM
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#15. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 14

          

Not to hijack, but I'm all for the positive displacement blower, after putting an Eaton on the Miata. Low RPM oomph makes any car more 'relaxed' to drive, you don't feel like you HAVE to wind the sucker up to find your power.

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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mlschultzFri Jan-19-07 12:34 PM
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#16. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 15

  

          

LOL Alright already I just called Scott and talked to him about the KB. Thanks Jeremi, He looked at the web page, and he is going to call Kenne Bell and pick their brain a little.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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mlschultzFri Jan-19-07 01:40 PM
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#17. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 16

  

          

Jeremi, will it bolt up to the gen 2 stock lower intake, or do I need to find a Cobra lower intake?


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
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Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceFri Jan-19-07 04:15 PM
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#18. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 17

  

          

The KB comes with it's own lower intake I believe, it's a direct bolt on to any B heads. You don't need any Cobra stuff. Your engine will run a lot hotter with that KB kit than with a Vortech. The Vortech should also make more peak horsepower and with your gears/torque converter, this will make it faster in the 1/4 mile than the KB 2.1 kit. I wouldn't put any twin screw blower on my car which wasn't intercooled, but that's just me.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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LonnieSat Jan-20-07 06:20 PM
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#19. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 18

          

I know of 7 KB Marks running right now with B an C heads, 2 of which I had a hand in and tuned. So they will fit with some mods. This is Roadboss with his C headed inner cooler setup, tuned by Lidio.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22990&stc=1&d=1165193151




www.blueovalchips.com
95 Mark VIII, 287 rwhp, 305 rwtq

  
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JeremiSat Jan-20-07 06:23 PM
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#20. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 19

  

          

How did the B headed ones come out ? Do you have some graphs or other data ?

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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LonnieSat Jan-20-07 06:36 PM
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#21. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 20

          

The boost was kept low 10 - 12 psi since the 2 I did didn't have inner coolers. 430 - 475 rwhp, with the old smaller compressors.



www.blueovalchips.com
95 Mark VIII, 287 rwhp, 305 rwtq

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-24-07 11:47 PM
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#22. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 21

  

          

Update on the Mark. I stopped by and talked to Steve today on how the trans build was going. The trans was in a million pieces on his work bench. He said there is expected wear for a trans with over 100k miles on it, but as far as I could tell, nothing was actually broke this time around. I had a broken 1-2 spring and a bad accumulator piston the last time he had the trans out to install the PI TC and shift mods.

He said that the tail shaft is going to be replaced, and showed me a possible cause of my vibration under acceleration at interstate speed since I had the 410 gears installed, even with my Dynotech metal matrix drive shaft.

The tail shaft bushing wear pattern indicates that only half the bushing had contact with the drive shaft. He has told me before, that I do not need the forced lube mod, but I am going to talk to him again about it. This vibration happened directly after Scott installed the 410's, as I noticed it on interstate drive home after the install.

Somehow after the gear install and the tc/trans work, whatever "play" was in the tail shaft and rear end after all those miles that suppressed the vibration, must have been tightened, and in turn exploited the vibration once again.

I do not suspect that the 410's caused the uneven wear, because this bushing had over 50k miles of vibration with the stock drive shaft before I had the Dynotech MMDS installed. The vibes were gone the day I had the MMDS installed.

There are some trans parts that have rounded corners, that should have sharp 90* angles, and a bunch of other parts that he has to inspect and decide what needs to be replaced.

He said that at the hp level he is building this trans, there is something he can do to the plates that makes the 4-2 shift feel like B A M!!! A VERY hard shift. He has done this to his Mustang race car, and regrets doing it. With that said, I told him not to do it.

The TC is on it's way back to PI, and will be re-stalled between 3600 and 3800 rpm. Trans should be all done sometime next week.

For the super charger portion, I am still working on who is going to do the install, and what kind of FI will be used. If I can't make a deal here in Atlanta, the Mark will be on a road trip to Florida asap.



Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieWed Jan-24-07 11:51 PM
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#23. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 22

          

Hmm...car going in for the build...I say the next Mark gathering, whoever shows up w/o a Mark has to buy!

Good luck with it, Mike, now that you've pulled the trigger, no more shopping for Jaguars!

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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doodaaThu Jan-25-07 12:17 PM
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#24. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 23

  

          

>... whoever shows up w/o a Mark has to buy!


Sounds like time for me to make a run up there. Free dinner!

Good luck Mike, I'll look forward to seeing it done.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzThu Jan-25-07 08:39 PM
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#25. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 24

  

          

Thanks, Guys! I was thinking of car pooling with Calvin to save on gas next month. Does that count as showing up in a Mark?

I have not looked at any XJR's in a week now, so I need to keep focus on the Mark and get this build done before I do something else to satisfy this itch I have


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieThu Jan-25-07 08:55 PM
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#26. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 25

          

Put a bottle on the Jeep.

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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BlackIceLSCThu Jan-25-07 11:23 PM
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#27. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 26
 Thu Jan-25-07 11:28 PM by BlackIceLSC

  

          

Mike...I found something your jeep is actually useful for!

http://www.break.com/index/how_to_destroy_a_jeep2.html




94 sprung/97 on air
President/Founder Club 16

  
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hasperdeFri Jan-26-07 12:19 AM
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#28. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 27

          

Man that was sad. That Jeep took so much punishment!!! And it did stellar.

  
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Thomas AFri Jan-26-07 12:33 AM
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#29. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 28

  

          

Another S/C'd GenII!!

Thomas



1997 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC
392rwhp 338rwtq 12.97 @ 112
Lawrence, Kansas

  
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mlschultzFri Jan-26-07 11:04 AM
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#30. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 29

  

          

Yep, since I really have no desire to be in club 16, I thought I would join the SC Mark Club

LOL, that video is exactly how I feel after every time I drive the Jeep. It is a nice truck, if you like trucks. Trucks are not my bag though, so I can't wait until the Mark is done.

I just got off the phone with Aric Carrion, and he is going to send me another quote for a Vortech with air to air intercooler build . He is totally against the KB with no intercooler.

He is good friends with Big Scott, and he has said he told Big Scott the same thing, and not to put that KB unit on his Mark because of the heat issue.

Aric is working on Mike's (tccoa) GoldBird tune as I speak at his shop. This build has been going on for a couple years now by Big Scott, and is a sight to be seen. Aric said Goldbird is finally headed to the rollers, and Mike is on his way here to be part of the festive event. I might have to check this out for myself


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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doodaaFri Jan-26-07 09:39 PM
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#31. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 30

  

          

>Aric is working on Mike's (tccoa) GoldBird tune as I speak at
>his shop. This build has been going on for a couple years now
>by Big Scott, and is a sight to be seen. Aric said Goldbird
>is finally headed to the rollers, and Mike is on his way here
>to be part of the festive event. I might have to check this
>out for myself

iirc Scott had a Vortech project in waiting for his Gen II Linky....??

The Goldbird project is well documented at TCCoA.com and modulardepot.com. It is indeed a sight to be seen, Scotts patience and attention to detail are pretty amazing. Frankencougie is no slouch either, even when he doesn't have the right rubber for the dragstrip on him. I was hoping they were going to get Goldbird done in time for SSHS6 so I could see it in person but that didn't work out.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzSat Jan-27-07 03:25 PM
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#32. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 31

  

          

Went to watch Goldbird on the rollers today That car is awesome. Sorry, but you guys will have to find out from Mike and Big Scott what GB did

I will say, Big Scott ditched the KB 1.7 build on his Mark for sure. He sold the KB 1.7 a while ago.

Update on the Mark... I just need to make it offical, but it looks like both Aric, and Big Scott - (Dr. FrankenCougie on TCCoA), are going to do the SC build on my Mark . Still, more talking needs to be done, like what FI will be used, but I think we can iron everything out very soon.

Plan is to start ordering stuff once decided how to do the build, and then hand the keys over to them when the parts arrive .


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceSat Jan-27-07 03:30 PM
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#33. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 32

  

          

Mike, how many miles are on your car? I think you should have used the money to build up your engine first with forged pistons and rods, you can keep the stock crank.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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mlschultzSat Jan-27-07 03:59 PM
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#34. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 33

  

          

104k miles. The last 50k miles on Mobil One oil. Like I have said many times before, money is not the issue with me, as much as what I want to end up with.

I already have almost $5k in trans and tc work alone. Same thing goes for the back half of the car and exhaust. All new stuff. I decided that 400hp at the wheels will do me just fine. I have been told the Mark engine will handle that without cracking into the bottom end using the stock B heads.

You are talking in upwards of $30k going beyond 450hp, on the motor alone in my car to have it built and good to go. That does not include any extra chassis stuff that must be done.

I just do not want to take it that far. If that was the case, I would rather go buy a '03 Cobra with 10k miles and with very little mods be at 600hp for the same money as the motor alone in the Mark.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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doodaaSat Jan-27-07 05:21 PM
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#35. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 34

  

          

>.... If that was the case,
>I would rather go buy a '03 Cobra with 10k miles and with very
>little mods be at 600hp for the same money as the motor alone
>in the Mark.


Yeah, but you have to account for the time it would take to get that many coats of wax on the Mustang.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzSat Jan-27-07 06:09 PM
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#36. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 35

  

          

LOL Marvin I better stick with the Mark. I can't imagine how many coats of wax that would be. For all I know, the Mark has enough to be in the Guinness book of world records for most coats of wax


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-31-07 09:06 AM
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#37. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 36

  

          

Aric called yesterday, and is working on a couple ideas regarding the build. One is, Vortech or Paxton, second is water to air or air to air. He also said Big Scott is looking into something too.

I have seen a couple cars with the 99 Cobra Vortech SC with water to air aftercooler, and it looks nice. But that is all I know. Anyone care to comment about the pros and cons?

Also, not too many people talk about intercooler and aftercoolers installed on their Marks, but from all the reading I have done beyond the Mark VIII community, water to air aftercoolers seem to be the way to go now. Any opinions on this?

Steve should be calling me soon to tell me he is done with the trans work, so I need to get the ball rolling again


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieWed Jan-31-07 10:14 AM
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#38. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 37

          

Intercooler/aftercooler, all the same thing in most automobiles. Technically speaking, if it's between the compressor and intake, it's an aftercooler, but pretty much everyone refers to them in the automotive applications as intercoolers, which by strict definition is a cooler *between* compressor stages.

Air/Water is most often used in spaces with minimal space, where routing the fairly large diameter tubing would be difficult/impossible, or in some applications, if you have a blower in the V, you are simply looking for a low profile installation. Air to air is simpler, no water lines to plumb, no additional water pumps needed, no reservoirs, and are typically pretty good at removing heat from the charge air. The drawback is plumbing it in such a way to minimize the pressure drop as you wind back and forth, around the engine bay, putting the intercooler core where it can get cool air. Air/water, you get the benefit of much smaller packaging, less pressure loss due to frictional components (less tubing/bends). Some people/companies will tout the ability of a reservoir to maintain a reserve of cooling for when you *are* on boost. Personally, I'm not a firm believer in that, based on observations when autocrossing, which is not that different from drag racing...the coolant in both situations gets heated up significantly, and then the car sits with little/no airflow over the heat exchanger. Maybe you put some fans (more complexity) or drain and refill the reservoir w/ ice, neither which I find appealing for anything short of an all out race car.

If it were my car, and could devise a routing of the tubing for an air/air setup, that's the way I would go, simply because of the simplicity of the system. Problem being, it's probably going to cost a bunch for a one off system. For the sake of comparison, the setup for my very basic Miata blower runs about $1000, and that's EASY to route, since the compressor sits on one side of the motor, the intake on the other, and all the tubes are fairly easy bends. Knowing where the blower usually ends up on our cars, and knowing the somewhat convoluted path you'd have to route the tubing, I can see why most people end up with an air/water setup.

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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LonnieWed Jan-31-07 12:43 PM
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#39. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 38

          

Scott called me yesterday for some ideas on which compressor to go with besides after coolers since I've done a few. Technically, the inner cooler is a heat exchanger, water or air directly after or attached to a compressor such as the KB, Wipple or Allen. Where as an after cooler is a remote heat exchanger.

As for compressors we talked about a Pro Charger also since they require no external oiling and can come with an after cooler. On the 97/98 Marks there's actually more room for a large after cooler. The KB would be nice if it was inner cooled. Since you are staying with the B heads then it isn't the best choice.



www.blueovalchips.com
95 Mark VIII, 287 rwhp, 305 rwtq

  
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callouieWed Jan-31-07 02:09 PM
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#40. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 39

          

I'll disagree with the definition of an 'intercooler'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler

In the classic definition, unless it's between compressor stages, hence the use of the prefix "inter", most of what you find in cars are 'aftercoolers', since they are placed 'after' the compressor stage.

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-31-07 07:16 PM
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#41. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 40

  

          

Thanks for the input Calvin and Lonnie. I have been all over the map with this, and it is quite a challenge to research gen 2 Mark VIII specific super charger builds that have been documented in detail.

I know that I will spend the extra money and go for the inter/after cooler and it really does not matter to me which one, but if one cooler does have an overall advantage, I would like to take that into consideration.

I spoke to Steve a few minutes ago, and the trans is built and ready to install. Just waiting for the TC to be shipped back from PI. He went with a 3600 stall this time.

I had a little Q&A with him regarding the trans build, and he said that he replaced just about everything, including the transmission mounts. A couple of points made were the overdrive band and steels had burns, rounding of some sharp corners, and the torque converter anti-drainback on the valve body was not working.

He replaced the valve body with a 1999 4R70W valve body. I did not ask him what car it is actually for, but he did say it is much better than the 1998 Mark VIII valve body.

He said that it is going to be much different shifting than with the stock trans, and is good to 500rwhp. He said I will need to have Aric tune the trans again, as the trans fluid flow and new 3600 stall are really going make the car run like a pig until the super charger is installed.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieWed Jan-31-07 07:55 PM
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#42. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 41

          

You plan on installing the transmission and driving the car before you do the blower? Thought once you started, you were taking it to the end in one fell swoop?

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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mlschultzWed Jan-31-07 08:33 PM
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#43. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 42

  

          

I want to do it that way - just pass the keys from Steve to Aric, but, Aric does not want the car until he has at least the main parts in hand. I have not received the new quote from him yet, so it might be another two weeks before the parts actually arrive at his shop if there is no back-order.

I need to go and pay Steve either tomorrow or Friday depending on the ice storm we might have tonight, and have Wendy pick up the Mark from him sometime next week when it is done because I need to hit the road and go back to Florida this Friday for maybe a couple weeks this time.

I thought about driving the Mark to Florida, because the ride is much better than that HEEP, and I hate that Jeep bouncing my big you know what all over the place , but it will not be done in time anyway.

As far as the build goes, I can have Wendy take the Mark to Aric's shop anytime he is ready, as it is about 5 miles from the house.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceWed Jan-31-07 09:58 PM
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#44. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 43

  

          

The 99 4R70W valve bodies are indeed better than earlier years. I think you should get a Procharger for a 99/01 Cobra because you do not have to tap the oil pan.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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KyleHWed Jan-31-07 10:13 PM
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#45. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 44

          

I had someone else tap the oil pan on mine it was worth the $100.

I would strongly suggest meth injection over an inter/aftercooler. You will get better temp reductions, it wonrt hurt airflow through thr radiator or transcooler, and it will raise the octane of the gasoline in addition to greatly adding to quench with the mixed in water. It also won't hurt air velocity or cause pressure drop acorss the cooler like an intercooler will. Really can't go wrong with it. You use almost none and its very easy to tap your winshield washer resivour then run the lowest temp washer fluid you can find. Around here in FL thats -20* and contains about 35% Meth 65% water. I have put less than $3 in it over 5000 miles of the car. I have never come close to running out and I rarely check it.

1998 Lincoln Mark VIII

  
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mlschultzThu Feb-01-07 10:32 AM
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#46. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 45

  

          

I will talk to Aric about meth/water injection, but from what I have read on the web, meth will not lower ACT as good as a after cooler can. What are your ACT numbers during rush hour Kyle?

Steve just called, and said I can leave the Mark with him while I go to Boca Raton, and will give it to Aric if I am still in Fla and he is ready to get started That is way cool for him to offer that, and is very much appreciated! Wendy is happy too. She is very afraid of driving the Mark anyway. I don't know why she is like that Or do I...


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
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Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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mlschultzWed Feb-14-07 11:48 AM
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#47. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 46

  

          

Update - Still here in Boca, and should be coming home this weekend. The decision has been made to go with the 99 Cobra Vortech with a water to air aftercooler. I am not a big fan of the battery being relocated to the trunk, but there is no getting around it.

FYI if anyone is in the market for a Vortech, there is a price increase scheduled for 2/28...

This is what the kit will kinda look like when it is installed:


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieWed Feb-14-07 12:37 PM
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#48. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 47

          

Boy, they're really going to have to get cracking to have it done by next Wed's dinner!

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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hasperdeWed Feb-14-07 01:52 PM
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#49. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 48

          

Mike has your car had almost 1 month of downtime? What is taking these guys so long .


I want to see what you will run once this whole thing is complete.

  
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mlschultzWed Feb-14-07 04:06 PM
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#50. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 49

  

          

Well Calvin and Max, I hope to be at the dinner next week, but, I have a feeling I might still be in Boca next week.

The trans and tc work is all done, and the Mark has been sitting on the rack at Steve's shop for a month now. The last time I drove the car was a month ago when I started this thread.

Aric has been researching to find the best solution to meet my needs, and I have been ready to get the ball rolling since last year after SSHS6, but have not had the time to really get started until last month.

Aric has not given me a date yet, but we both agree it will not take long when the parts are in hand.

I do not want the car to break into the 11's, because a roll bar is just not going to be installed in the Mark. Bad enough the battery has to be moved to the trunk. I hope that it runs somewhere in the low 12's






Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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callouieWed Feb-14-07 04:36 PM
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#51. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 50

          

Cool. So I get a 3 second lead on the next race, just to give you something to shoot for!

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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coldasiceWed Feb-14-07 04:45 PM
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#52. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 50

  

          

You don't need a roll bar unless you run faster than 11.5.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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callouieWed Feb-14-07 04:54 PM
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#53. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 52

          

Not according to Atlanta Dragway or NHRA.

http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html

Calvin Louie
94 Mark VIII - Dark Portofino Blue/Portofino Blue

  
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coldasiceWed Feb-14-07 05:53 PM
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#54. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 53

  

          

11.9 is the old rule, it's 11.5 now as cars are getting faster. More and more stock cars are now running 11's stock so that's why the rule has been changed.

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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JeremiWed Feb-14-07 09:31 PM
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#55. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 54

  

          

Good choice on the setup Mike. Do you know if they will be using the vortech aftercooler ? That fancy piece will not fit in the mark viii engine bay without severe cutting on the shock tower. Just a FYI.

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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mlschultzWed Feb-14-07 10:59 PM
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#56. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 55
 Wed Feb-14-07 11:01 PM by mlschultz

  

          

Thanks, Jeremi. I really do not know what Aric plans to do with the aftercooler kit. He might mod the Vortech kit. Or, call Dennis and see what he has done, and maybe purchase a kit from him since he has already figured everything out for the 98 Mark. I sent him these pictures of a build I think Dennis worked on for reference.




Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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Thomas AThu Feb-15-07 09:05 PM
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#57. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 56

  

          

Looks like the AC is removed on the pictures you posted. I didn't see anyway you could use the Vortech cooler and keep your AC lines when I did mine. I'll be adding a meth injection kit instead of an IC on mine.

Thomas



1997 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC
392rwhp 338rwtq 12.97 @ 112
Lawrence, Kansas

  
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mlschultzThu Feb-15-07 09:42 PM
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#58. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 57

  

          

The Mark will have AC and a aftercooler . Glad I don't have to figure out how to make it all work. I just get to pay the bill for all that figuring...

I have been told that meth alone is not going to keep ACT's under control like a aftercooler will.




Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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doodaaFri Feb-16-07 10:56 AM
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#59. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 58

  

          

>The Mark will have AC and a aftercooler

He's not kidding about the AC. I'd be able to hear him cussin' down here first time he had to sit without it in Atlanta traffic for more than 5 minutes.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzThu Feb-22-07 05:03 PM
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#60. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 59

  

          

I picked up the Mark today from Steve. He was correct - I need to have the tune adjusted for the 3600 stall tc. It is a porker...

LOL, I am vulnerable now until the supercharger is installed - Calvin might be able to have his way with me at the track. I am not going to mess with the tune until it goes back on the rollers with the sc installed for another dyno tune.

The transmission feels great, and shifts with great purpose and authority now What I noticed most of all, are the downshifts when you slow down to a stop light. The downshifting now feels similar to the upshifting - with great purpose and authority.

I spoke with Aric today, and a decision change was made regarding the aftercooler. It is now going to be a 3 core Vortech air to air aftercooler with custom made powder coated pipe. The battery is going to stay in the stock location up front

I am glad Aric decided to go this way with the build, as I really want the Mark to have the factory look and feel, and be reliable enough to be a daily driver with at least 400hp at the wheels Just waiting for parts to come in now...


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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Burbank 98 LscThu Feb-22-07 08:20 PM
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#62. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 60

  

          

Sweet ,another blown mark on the way .It should be cool mark when it's done. Good luck with your project.


Black 98LSC and white 98LSC CE
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/e7ff4d37-2ea1-4058-827f-99de00047236.htm

  
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jladamsThu Feb-22-07 06:37 PM
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#61. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 56

          

>Thanks, Jeremi. I really do not know what Aric plans to do
>with the aftercooler kit. He might mod the Vortech kit. Or,
>call Dennis and see what he has done, and maybe purchase a kit
>from him since he has already figured everything out for the
>98 Mark. I sent him these pictures of a build I think Dennis
>worked on for reference.
>
>
>
>

These are pics of my car.

Jack

  
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mlschultzThu Feb-22-07 11:36 PM
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#63. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 61

  

          

Thanks, Michal. Likewise, good luck with your mods. I have been keeping my eye on your progress, and it looks great. I really am looking forward to getting this build done, asap.

Jack, How do you like your set-up? Did Dennis have that aftercooler made from scratch? How about your a/c lines - did you move or delete them?


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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Thomas AFri Feb-23-07 12:48 AM
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#64. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 63

  

          

I will be very interested in seeing pictures of the IC setup you end up with. I just don't see how you can get that size of IC in the car without loosing your AC or moving the battery. There just isn't enough room that I can see.

Thomas



1997 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC
392rwhp 338rwtq 12.97 @ 112
Lawrence, Kansas

  
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mlschultzFri Feb-23-07 04:28 PM
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#65. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 64

  

          

Just returned from Aric's shop. Had to drop off a check to get the ball rolling again. He is going to do a totally custom air to air aftercooler behind the bumper.

Guess he is going to put a 03 Cobra radiator and fan in to make some space.

I want all the aftercooler pipes to be powder coated black, to keep the stock look going. The compressor head unit is going to be highly polished though - bling

Now I have to wait for the parts to get here from California, before the real fun starts... Stay tuned...


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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doodaaFri Feb-23-07 06:32 PM
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#66. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 65

  

          

So is this thing going to be ready in time for the March meet? I have a decent excuse for heading up there around the 15th if I really wanted to.....

______________________________

  
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mlschultzSat Feb-24-07 09:35 AM
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#67. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 66

  

          

It would be nice, but, I would not bet on it being done by mid-March just yet. Come up anyway, Marvin. DOM can show you his new trick when he eats a batch of Cuban beans...

It goes something like this:


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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JeremiSat Feb-24-07 10:08 AM
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#68. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 67

  

          

This has to be the longest vortech install in the history of this message board.

Either your compressor or battery is going to the trunk. That or you're about to lose some ground clearance. A/C lines will be fine. Lots of stuff to be relocated like washer fluid reservoir, horns, etc. I had all this done to the 97 in order to use an AIR to AIR system with the vortech. But then I went with the new motor.
Tell Aric to look into treadstone intercoolers. They make one that fits just fine. I sold it to Thomas ... maybe he wants to get rid of it ?

Jeremi aka boost-junkie.
08 Corvette C6 stock. I swear.

  
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mlschultzSun Feb-25-07 12:15 PM
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#69. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 68

  

          

LOL, Jeremi. I know, I hope to speed this process up very soon now. I will mention to Aric, to take a look at the Treadstone intercoolers.

I just ordered a SCP Pinion Brace, Poly Diff Bushings, and a SCP Rear Cover Brace from Super Coupe Performance, to help keep the rear diff in place a little better, and to keep wheel hop down.







Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceSun Feb-25-07 06:30 PM
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#70. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 69

  

          

Mike your car is starting to be a heavily modded Mark VIII... I still think you should have tried to get a high 13 second NA pass in before supercharging it but hey it's your car...

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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doodaaSun Feb-25-07 07:46 PM
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#71. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 67
 Sun Feb-25-07 07:46 PM by doodaa

  

          

>...Come up anyway, Marvin. DOM can show you his new trick when he eats a batch of Cuban beans...

roflmao.

What's that saying about teaching old dogs? Did he try to tell you he'd added a turbo exhuast? Pretty sure I don't need to ride all the way up there to see THAT trick, especially if that's the best ya'll can come up with to celebrate my birthday. Busting your chops at the dragstrip is another thing altogether though.

______________________________

  
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mlschultzMon Feb-26-07 11:36 AM
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#72. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 71

  

          

Atlanta Dragway T&T opens on Friday night March 9th. I would like to take it one last time down the track NA, but I will not stop the build progress to do it. The Mark has proven time and time again, that it runs better et's during the daytime, than during the Friday night T&T's though.

It does not bother me not breaking into the 13's NA. I think it would be cool to skip 13's all together

Come on up anytime, Marvin. You know we always have fun when your in town.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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mlschultzTue Feb-27-07 10:43 AM
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#73. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 72

  

          

Bill at SCP shipped the parts yesterday. What service Scott L called yesterday, and is going to install the pinion brace, poly diff bushings, and the rear cover brace in two weeks, if Aric does not have the car.

Aric called also, and said the blower and all the fuel delivery stuff is on order. The plan is, when the blower arrives, he is going to install it first, and then remove the front bumper and start to fab-up the intercooler.


Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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mlschultzSat Mar-03-07 05:18 PM
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#74. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 73

  

          

I stopped by to talk to Aric and Scott L. today. Aric has most everything in - injectors, pump, regulator, etc. Still waiting for the Vortech SC though. Thanks Jeremi, for the Treadstone lead. I think Aric is going with them for the intercooler.

He is still not sure yet about the gen2 Mark intake. He does not know what to expect with it, and might decide to put a Cobra intake unit on if he does not get to the magic number with it.

If Scott has time, he might give me a call Monday to install the pinion brace, poly bushings, and diff cover brace.

Put a couple coats of Zaino on the Mark today, and took some pics before I covered it up. Enjoy!













Mike
11.751 @ 120.80
SSHS8 Class D Runner-Up
Favorite Wendy quotes of The Mark: "WEEEEEEEEEEE" "Rides like a minivan..." "Nice hubcaps"

  
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coldasiceSat Mar-03-07 06:02 PM
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#75. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 74

  

          

Burbank 98 LSC runs around 120mph with a stock gen 2 intake and Vortech S trim... I don't think you need the Cobra intake...

98 Black/Graphite LSC (13.22 @ 106.2mph)
96 Black/Black Base (14.93 @ 95.79mph)
95 Black/Pearl LSC (13.8 @ 101.3mph) RIP

  
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DevinSat Mar-03-07 08:00 PM
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#76. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 74

  

          

Good grief, those photos look like Ford advertising shots! What an awesome Mark you have!

---------------------------------------
Black on Black 1994 Mark VIII.
13.0864 @ 105.86 mph! (Satisfaction!)
Mods here: www.streettostrip.com/devin

  
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mlschultzSun Mar-04-07 09:30 AM
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#77. "RE: 98 Mark SC Build"
In response to Reply # 76

  

          

That is a good point Serge. I will let him know. FWIW, I gave Aric complete control to do whatever he feels necessary to make a 400rwhp daily driver using stock internals, and to make it as close to a stock factory look as he can.

I am sure it would be easier on him to leave the stock intake alone, but he needs to find 170rwhp from somewhere, to add to the 233rwhp it already has. His choice on how to go about get