So I am doing about 80+ on I90 just east of Seattle and I get pulled over by a state trooper. I like the police and have all the respect in the world for them for what it is that they do but for gods sake, train these people on the laws.
So I ask the cop if he is the one that clocked me and he states the a plane got me a few miles back. I ask him why that trooper is not pulling me over and he looked at me stupid. "Well he is in a plane" he says. So I remember a story a cop I know told me about going to court with the same situation. The police officer in Wasington state has to be the one that observed you speeding that pulls you over and issues you the ticket. I ask the cop this and he tells me that is not the case. So before he took off to write me the ticket I asked him to just save us both the time of sitting on the side of the freeway and write me the ticket. He does and I go on my way and of course go to court were the judge dropped the ticket because the cop did not witness me speeding.
Not too sure about the laws in other states but check them out if you get pulled over by a cop that did not witness you speeding.

Well, in Missouri the observing officer's name is included on the citation, along with the arresting officer. Should the accused enter a plea of not-guilty, both the observing and the arresting officers are subpoenaed to testify in court...pretty elementary stuff. This has been the procedure since well before my time, so I really don't know what to tell you. However, it seems pretty strange to me that the state of Washington would go to all the trouble and expense of putting troopers in airplanes for traffic enforcement, if the resulting tickets are unenforceable. Assuming you are a taxpayer in Washington, this is your money they're spending, my friend. If what you say is true, you people are in serious need of cleaning out the nitwits you've elected to your state's legislature.

Gale
Ex-Mark VIII Owner (for now)
06 Monte Carlo SS, 12K miles

Years ago (in 1986, prior to Mark VIIIs even being conceived) I was driving my 58 Vette on a trip from Texas to Oklahoma City. Cruising well above the 55 mile an hour speed limit, I topped a hill and a trooper was parked on side of the road and waved me over. He approached and informed me that I had been speeding. When I asked how I was clocked, he mentioned that it was by aircraft (they don't use aircraft in Texas for speed enforcement). Apparently in Oklahoma (and in Colorado, another state I am very familiar with), there are small markings on the side of the interstates about a mile apart. In Colorado the markings are in the shape of an airplane. The plane flying high above merely times you as you drive between two of these markings to get an average speed for the mile. If you are speeding, a trooper makes the stop and writes you a ticket. It is all perfectly legal, and both officers (officer observing the violation and officer writing the ticket) would have to show up in court. One would testify about the violation and how he radioed the correct car to the ground unit, and the other officer would testify that you are the one that was driving the vehicle and was given the ticket.
In fact, I would rather get a ticket for an average speed over a mile, than an instant speed from a radar or laser.

In Kansas way back in the 60s, there used to be these little white painted marks that looked like airplanes in the center of the lane on some highways. I have not seen them for years. I think John Law sort of figured out it might not be cost effective.

MOD aka "another Craig"
Mark of Distinction
1993 Light Mocha

I don't remember those, Craig, but I do remember signs in Missouri back then that said "speed checked by aircraft", or something similar. By "John Law", do you mean the Kansas Highway Patrol? If so, please keep in mind that that local, county and state law enforcement agencies do not have the authority to spend a dime of taxpayers' money, for any purpose. That authority lies solely with the people we elect to city, county and state legislatures, who then dole the money out to the cops as they see fit.

I have a commercial pilots license, and therefore know a thing or two about aviation. While I suppose it could have been "back in the day", I can assure you that using aircraft for traffic enforcement today simply cannot be cost effective.

Gale
Ex-Mark VIII Owner (for now)
06 Monte Carlo SS, 12K miles

"I have a commercial pilots license, and therefore know a thing or two about aviation. While I suppose it could have been "back in the day", I can assure you that using aircraft for traffic enforcement today simply cannot be cost effective."

True enough! Just last year the Commonwealth of Virginia grounded its aerial speed enforcement program. The funny part is that they didn't take down the signs that announce the program.

Ke11eyman
96 LSC/Bright Toreadore Tint/Saddle
96 Medium Graphite/Lt Graphite

I live in Washington as well, believe me King County loves to elect nitwits LOL. Doesn't surprise me at all that they would do something really stupid. One thing I learned about State patrol here is that they really need to study the wac's before they hit the road.

1995 Mark VIII 75K
1997 Ford Explorer Limited 250K
1968 Dodge Charger 90K

In Florida that would be highly illegal. They are not allowed to hide and if they do you can easily get out of it. Here's an excerpt directly from the state trooper handbook. Notice how it states they have to make themselves clearly visible to the public in order to serve AND ENFORCE traffic laws.

17.01.04 PROCEDURES A. During routine patrol duty assignments, members should combine roving patrol and parked observation patrol within their assigned zone. When cruising, members should drive at a reasonable speed based on existing traffic/weather conditions, comply with all traffic control regulations and educate motorists by example. When parked to observe traffic movement, members will place their patrol unit in a clearly visible position alongside or adjacent to the roadway in a position from which they can clearly observe traffic in both directions and indicate to the motoring public that they are readily accessible for service or enforcement of traffic laws.

Hope this helps.

>In Florida that would be highly illegal. They are not
>allowed to hide and if they do you can easily get out of it.
>Here's an excerpt directly from the state trooper handbook.
>Notice how it states they have to make themselves clearly
>visible to the public in order to serve AND ENFORCE traffic
>laws.
>
>17.01.04 PROCEDURES A. During routine patrol duty assignments,
>members should combine roving patrol and parked observation
>patrol within their assigned zone. When cruising, members
>should drive at a reasonable speed based on existing
>traffic/weather conditions, comply with all traffic control
>regulations and educate motorists by example. When parked to
>observe traffic movement, members will place their patrol unit
>in a clearly visible position alongside or adjacent to the
>roadway in a position from which they can clearly observe
>traffic in both directions and indicate to the motoring public
>that they are readily accessible for service or enforcement of
>traffic laws.
>
>Hope this helps.

In the past, I've actually heard otherwise intelligent people claim that police officers "hiding" for the purpose of enforcing traffic laws constituted entrapment. I always responded by asking these people to define "entrapment", and of course none of them ever could.

It sounds to me like some elected officials had a hand in writing 17.01.04 PROCEDURES A, my friend. And, if these elected office holders were not attorneys themselves, you can rest assured that lawyers had some input at some level. Unbelievable.

It's lunacy like this that caused me to retire a couple of years early. As I've said many times, attorneys will spell the destruction of this country as we know it.

Gale
Ex-Mark VIII Owner (for now)
06 Monte Carlo SS, 12K miles

First off.....hats off for a job I could never do...and even more kudoos for being on a performance car site(yes I consider the VIII to be performance).

I am also in Missouri, been here most my life. I will say that I had a Taurus SHO and eventually my poor VIII(its seen better days cosmetically). For the most part I adhered to the speed limit(Mustangs piss me off). Right hand turn corn field roads(ate rustangs with my FWD), and of course Interste 70 from Columbia to the StL area, were both stomping grounds. I pushed the SHO to limit, never got the balls for the VIII. If you were a HP on 70, you know the split valley thats great for speed runs.

Never got caught SoL is past....never wrecked or did it with other cars around(cept for those cruising at 100mph.

Though some drunk rednecks tried to run me off the road(State road 47), and I could of easily pitted them....but the wife was in the car. Choose your battles....lol.

Anyway, I heard that they cut the revenue for the planes and choppers in the last few years. This true?

Side note.....I have no problem with cops. Some good friends are of service.... adding a VIII enthusiast would be great! What part of MO you hail? PM if its appropriate...hope you are enjoying your retirement.

After a terrible car wreck....not my fault. In my AWD Astro van, I now live with constant back pain and no symppathy from my doctors...I guess karma caught up with me.....cest la vie....still have my VII AND Aviator(POS but great when it runs right). So now I drive like an old lady....especially with the Aviator 11mpg. But I do get frisky every now and then.....safety fast.....


>It sounds to me like some elected officials had a hand in
>writing 17.01.04 PROCEDURES A, my friend. And, if these
>elected office holders were not attorneys themselves, you can
>rest assured that lawyers had some input at some level.
>Unbelievable.
>
>It's lunacy like this that caused me to retire a couple of
>years early. As I've said many times, attorneys will spell
>the destruction of this country as we know it.
>
>
>

1997 Base Ivory Pearlescent(HA)/Ivory(ZQ)

>First off.....hats off for a job I could never do...and even
>more kudoos for being on a performance car site(yes I consider
>the VIII to be performance).
>
>I am also in Missouri, been here most my life. I will say
>that I had a Taurus SHO and eventually my poor VIII(its seen
>better days cosmetically). For the most part I adhered to the
>speed limit(Mustangs piss me off). Right hand turn corn field
>roads(ate rustangs with my FWD), and of course Interste 70
>from Columbia to the StL area, were both stomping grounds. I
>pushed the SHO to limit, never got the balls for the VIII. If
>you were a HP on 70, you know the split valley thats great for
>speed runs.
>
>Never got caught SoL is past....never wrecked or did it with
>other cars around(cept for those cruising at 100mph.
>
>Though some drunk rednecks tried to run me off the road(State
>road 47), and I could of easily pitted them....but the wife
>was in the car. Choose your battles....lol.
>
>Anyway, I heard that they cut the revenue for the planes and
>choppers in the last few years. This true?
>
>Side note.....I have no problem with cops. Some good friends
>are of service.... adding a VIII enthusiast would be great!
>What part of MO you hail? PM if its appropriate...hope you
>are enjoying your retirement.
>
>After a terrible car wreck....not my fault. In my AWD Astro
>van, I now live with constant back pain and no symppathy from
>my doctors...I guess karma caught up with me.....cest la
>vie....still have my VII AND Aviator(POS but great when it
>runs right). So now I drive like an old lady....especially
>with the Aviator 11mpg. But I do get frisky every now and
>then.....safety fast.....
>
>
>>It sounds to me like some elected officials had a hand in
>>writing 17.01.04 PROCEDURES A, my friend. And, if these
>>elected office holders were not attorneys themselves, you
>can
>>rest assured that lawyers had some input at some level.
>>Unbelievable.
>>
>>It's lunacy like this that caused me to retire a couple
>of
>>years early. As I've said many times, attorneys will
>spell
>>the destruction of this country as we know it.
>>
>>
>>
>

I'm out in the "country" just northeast of Kansas City, Mo (Clay County). I'm enjoying my "retirement" immensely, although I'm working full-time for a large medical IT corporation. Still being paid for carrying a gun.

I have no idea if the state has reduced its aviation budget, but I'll see what I can find out. If it were up to me, the expenditures for aviation would be eliminated.

Gale
Ex-Mark VIII Owner (for now)
06 Monte Carlo SS, 12K miles

Why are you doing 80+ on the freeway? People like you kill people!

>Why are you doing 80+ on the freeway? People like you kill
>people!
We have many freeways in CA where 80 is the average speed. Average. If you go slower you better be all the way to the right. I'm not saying it's legal or safe, just that everyone is doing it. I5, the central CA north-south route is a good example. If you do 80 you will get passed up as often as you have to pass someone.

>So I am doing about 80+ on I90 just east of Seattle and I get
>pulled over by a state trooper. I like the police and have all
>the respect in the world for them for what it is that they do
>but for gods sake, train these people on the laws.
>So I ask the cop if he is the one that clocked me and he
>states the a plane got me a few miles back. I ask him why that
>trooper is not pulling me over and he looked at me stupid.
>"Well he is in a plane" he says. So I remember a
>story a cop I know told me about going to court with the same
>situation. The police officer in Wasington state has to be the
>one that observed you speeding that pulls you over and issues
>you the ticket. I ask the cop this and he tells me that is not
>the case. So before he took off to write me the ticket I asked
>him to just save us both the time of sitting on the side of
>the freeway and write me the ticket. He does and I go on my
>way and of course go to court were the judge dropped the
>ticket because the cop did not witness me speeding.
>Not too sure about the laws in other states but check them out
>if you get pulled over by a cop that did not witness you
>speeding.

Well, I don't know about the laws in Washington, but I can give you my opinion based on my experience - both troopers should have signed your ticket, and both should have appeared in court after you entered a plea of not guilty.

Now, if what the "cop you know" told you is true, why on earth would your state highway patrol be operating radar from a very, very expensive fleet of aircraft, knowing that any and all tickets issued would be invalid under state law? This doesn't make sense to me. If this is indeed the case, you taxpayers up there in the State of Washington have got a really, really big problem on your hands, and need to consider a serious housecleaning of your state's legislature...and soon.

Gale
Ex-Mark VIII Owner (for now)
06 Monte Carlo SS, 12K miles